Xcode 5?



  • On 18/09/2013 at 20:30, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    User Information:
    Cinema 4D Version:   12 
    Platform:      Mac OSX  ; 
    Language(s) :     C++  ;

    ---------
    To upgrade or not?
    Anybody tried it yet with C4D SDK?

    Peter



  • On 19/09/2013 at 09:44, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Howdy,

    What you can do is create a copy of your Developer folder and name it "Xcode 4.x", then install Xcode 5. That way you'll still have Xcode 4 upon which to fall back. You can have your plugin project files default to Xcode 4 (in the Finder Get Info window) so that you will still be able to double click on them, if they won't work in Xcode 5.

    Adios,
    Cactus Dan



  • On 20/09/2013 at 06:43, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Cactus Dan

    Good advice to copy the XCode 4 folder. 
    When I try to compile my C4D SDK code I get a 'Permission denied' error when it tries to write the .a file. Not sure how to correct this at the moment but will be using Xcode 4 for the foreseeable future.

    Peter



  • On 21/09/2013 at 01:47, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    hey 
    with xcode 5 i get an 
    can't create output file: /./lib_api_debug.a (Permission denied)
    error - with xcode 4 it run without any error.



  • On 04/10/2013 at 03:40, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    With the reworked build system in Xcode 5 Apple has broken a part of the build folder handling. We plan to issue an workaround for our SDK projects with the next update (which will allow you to compile it with Xcode 4.x and 5.x).

    Until then please stay at Xcode 4.x

    Best regards,

    Wilfried Behne



  • On 04/10/2013 at 07:15, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Howdy,

    Personally, I don't like Xcode 4, so I'm sure I won't like Xcode 5 either. In my opinion, Apple should have left well enough alone with Xcode 3. 😉

    Adios,
    Cactus Dan



  • On 04/10/2013 at 07:54, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    Howdy,
    Personally, I don't like Xcode 4, so I'm sure I won't like Xcode 5 either. In my opinion, Apple should have left well enough alone with Xcode 3. 😉
    Adios,
    Cactus Dan

    Design-wise for sure (esp, if you dislike the Visual Studio like integration of all elements in one main window), but under the hood the fast build system and compiler (in our projects roughly twice as fast as it was with gcc; now a complete rebuild with VS2012 is 50% slower than doing it with Xcode - on the same hw) was worth the switch.

    Best regards,

    Wilfried



  • On 04/10/2013 at 08:28, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Howdy,

    Yep, I noticed the speed difference, too. I just don't like the layout design and workflow. But, then again, I'm an old school Mac user (started with Code Warrior) and really find it difficult to warm up to the "all in one window" interface.

    In my opinion, they should've at least allowed more user customization of the layout so all of us "old timers" can still feel comfortable using it.

    Notice how my favored Xcode 3 layout resembles Code Warrior:

    If I could get Xcode 4 to look like that, I'd feel much more comfortable using it. 😉

    But, I reckon this isn't the place to air grievances about Xcode. 😊

    Adios,
    Cactus  Dan



  • On 04/10/2013 at 09:10, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    But there's one thing that Maxon is either forgetting. Or brushing off as not important.
    *Most people are still using older systems.

    The update cycle for these compilers(VS & Xcode) is occurring many, many times faster than the users update their OS.
    So while you guys are getting all excited supporting the latest compilers. With all the latest language gizmos and speed increases. The users are suffering for it.

    Examples:
    -Users have to install drivers for things compiled with VS2012.
     Despite what some devs. think. This is a horrible thing to ask your non-tech savy users to do.
     There's several reasons why a user would not want to install drivers like this.

    -Developers have to upgrade from old compilers the liked to new ones they hate (visually)
     This is huge problem right now. Everyone is complaining about it. It's not just a couple of people.

    -Developers have to upgrade their OS in addition to upgrading to new compilers they hate because their OS won't run the new compiler version. Vista is still widely used (as is XP) and Maxon & Microsoft are forcing me to upgrade it just to compile C4D plugins.

    -I'm not a MAC user. But holy hell what a mess that whole situation has looked like over the past three years. All due to the fact that they keep changing the compiler almost annually just for some fairly minor changes that people have lived without for years just fine.

    Maybe I'm the minority.
    But IMHO. I would much rather sacrifice having the latest C++ 11 stuff. Compared with the pain of what comes with upgrading to the latest and greatest compilers.
    It's simply not worth the pain involved to have these C++ 11 gizmos and compiler speed improvements.
    While Maxon keeps chasing after the latest and greatest compilers. They are causing a lot of suffering to the plugin devs. and sometimes even the plugin users in the process.
    By forcing us to use VS2012 you've opened up a whole can of worms for some of us (possibly many of us?).
    Please try to keep that in mind when deciding how often to chase after the latest compilers.
    Sometimes using the latest and greatest is the worst decision.

    Sorry if this comes off like a rant.
    But I'm really pissed at MS for what they've done visually to their compiler and cutting off the Vista users. And at Maxon for forcing us to use it.

    -ScottA



  • On 04/10/2013 at 09:29, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    While I can see the frustration, I've been using Windows 7 and MacOS 10.8 for a while with the newer build environments.  Yes, one has to clip off support to older versions of C4D (I'm at R13 as the foundation).  But VS2010 and Xcode 4.6 work well enough for me to do my work.  When I must use VS2012 for R15, I'm certain that there will be a route there.  Maxon's speed of moving forward lately is definitely placing third-party plugin developers in difficult situations.  There needs to be more communication, I think.



  • On 04/10/2013 at 11:23, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    [..] I would much rather sacrifice having the latest C++ 11
    stuff. Compared with the pain of what comes with upgrading to the
    latest and greatest compilers.It's simply not worth the pain involved to have these C++ 11 gizmos and compiler speed improvements.While
    Maxon keeps chasing after the latest and greatest compilers. They are
    causing a lot of suffering to the plugin devs. and sometimes even the
    plugin users in the process.By forcing us to use VS2012 you've opened up a whole can of worms for some of us (possibly many of us?).Please try to keep that in mind when deciding how often to chase after the latest compilers.Sometimes using the latest and greatest is the worst decision.Sorry if this comes off like a rant.But I'm really pissed at MS for what they've done visually to their compiler and cutting off the Vista users. And at Maxon for forcing us to use it.-ScottA

    - For commercial developers time is a rare resource, therefore a compiler doing the job twice as fast (while also delivering faster code) is worth the change.

    - The need to install appropriate redistributables is a unfortunate consequence of using Windows (and living with the so-called "DLL hell"). You can either use the same compiler we're using (and therefore utilize the redistributables we're already installing with Cinema), or you're on your own.

    - If you don't see the value in "these C++11 gizmos" (or improvements like ARC in Xcode), the problems you have to solve might be more of a simplistic nature or it might be time to up your game (in programming). Take this as a chance to learn C++11 NOW.

    - The changes on the Windows side are triggered by technical necessities. Neither VS2005 nor VS2010 are conforming to the C++ standard (sometimes "just" bugs, sometimes important things of the standard are missing). As we have to get the code working on 3 different platforms (Win, OS X, Linux), we need compilers that work properly. Just compile-speed wise we would have stayed on VS2005, but the number of limitations and bugs in that version made it impossible.

    - We're going to great length to keep the API stable, allowing plugins from older versions to run and make it easy for 3rd party programmers to adapt their code, if necessary. Otherwise 3rd party programmers would have not only to adapt to a new compiler and (perhaps) some project file changes, but they would have to change a lot in their code for each yearly release (as there happened a lot under the hood).

    - Personally I'd encourage people to utilize the latest enhancements that are included in the latest SDK (e.g. BaseArrays, Hashmaps, the new types like Int32, etc.), as in my experience (e.g. working with a lot of different operating systems or other companies SDKs - e.g. Autodesk) staying on the legacy code for too long, will make it very hard at some point to adapt to all the changes (and you have to start big rewrites).

    Best regards,

    Wilfried



  • On 04/10/2013 at 13:03, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    I understand your position Wilfred.
    If Maxon didn't keep current they'd probably get complaints from the other end of the spectrum.
    Most of my complaints are mostly aimed at MS anyway.

    Things just seem to change way too often compared with how often the end users are updating their systems. And this results in headaches all around.

    -ScottA



  • On 04/10/2013 at 13:35, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    I understand your position Wilfred.If Maxon didn't keep current they'd probably get complaints from the other end of the spectrum.Most of my complaints are mostly aimed at MS anyway.Things just seem to change way too often compared with how often the end users are updating their systems. And this results in headaches all around.-ScottA

    Even this user behavior is very different on other platforms - the low price of OS X updates might be part of the reason.

    I think what you've seen with XP (being available for so long) will be an exception (partly driven by the stumbling blocks MS hit when they tried to develop the successor) and something MS will avoid in the future; see the yearly release cycle there pushing with Win 8.1 - if that works out, we'll see...

    Best regards,

    Wilfried



  • On 06/10/2013 at 09:15, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    Howdy,

    Personally, I don't like Xcode 4, so I'm sure I won't like Xcode 5 either. In my opinion, Apple should have left well enough alone with Xcode 3. 😉

    Totally agree. XCode 4.x workflow is a nightmare. I don't get how anyone would like the UI more than 3.x, it is simply unintuitive. The design is plain bad. I would love to choke the guy responsible for this. Honestly, it sucks! 🤢



  • On 24/10/2013 at 00:54, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Any news for the xcode 5 support yet or perhaps a timescale? I have a feeling xcode 5.01 has since been released. How has or will that affect the situation?


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