C4D serial digits not unique?



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 01/03/2010 at 07:58, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    I second that.  Let's start a database.  I would be happy to host it at my site.     Any thoughts on how we can do this?

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 02/03/2010 at 16:00, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    So does everyone that encounters this send the money back?    Is it legal to say that they are no refunds?

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 02/03/2010 at 16:28, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Thinking out loud here….

    No, I don't think it's wise just keeping the money
    as no product is actually shipped.
    If not only to to -not- get in trouble if the
    person starts to complain at the money transfer partner (PayPal etc).

    I -suppose- (I'm not a lawyer or anything) one could
    construct a safe reclaimer at the shop that a license
    will be shipped after payment -and- when a legit serial is sent.
    Until then the delivery is "on hold".

    Again, I can't tell if this is water tight internationally or not.
    And the sad email conversations will still be a time waster...

    Or in more layman terms, "Don't f''k with my time, or pay for it" … :)

    Despite you offer Shawn, I also don't think it is safe to keep serials
    outside Maxon.

    If anything, maybe there could be a login site (at Maxon) with
    a list of suspended numbers. That's all I can think of as possibly realistic.

    Cheers
    Lennart



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 02/03/2010 at 16:35, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Yeah you are right,  a Maxon hosted serial database would be ideal.  And you're also right that keeping the money is probably bot a good idea.  Although I think I am going to refund the money minus paypal costs.

    It annoys me because it takes up my time to tell these people I can't send them a license for their invalid serial number.  LOL  GRRR.

    Thanks for the response Lennart.
    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 03/03/2010 at 01:50, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Just to confirm here, it is definetly an illegal action to not refund the money if you do not provide the customer with the service he paid for. Also it is not legal to not refund the paypal costs, because paypal allows a full refund, which includes any paypal fees, within 90 days. So there is no groundtruth for keeping any money if this is not explicitly stated in your terms of use (and then afaik you cannot simply keep the paypal fees as they are dynamically changing. You´d need to set a fixed fee yourself). It doesn´t really matter if the serial is a valid and legal one in that case.

    All I do is simply reject registration and I refund money.

    I also agree that MAXON needs to come up with a support strategy here for official third parties. Maybe giving them login data for a database on the maxon server or similar and letting third parties sign an according NDA contract beforehand.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 03/03/2010 at 02:40, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Okay.. Thanks Katachi,   Seems like there's nothing we can do about the fact that our time is being wasted here.   It doesn't seem right to me.   :)

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 03/03/2010 at 03:14, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    yep :)



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 03/03/2010 at 06:54, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    My plugin shop is fully automated, i.e. the customer is able to download the plugin right after a successful paypal transaction. So the only way for me would be, to validate the c4d serial digits during the ordering and deny the purchase from start up. I'm not willing for the extra work of additional e-mail communications and money refund. Furthermore, customers can also pay via bank transfer so it would be a non-acceptable afford to refund the money in this case.

    A database hosted by MAXON, that can be accessed by a php script would be the only way for me to avoid illegal c4d users.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 03/03/2010 at 15:07, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    what about license depending on hardware like themida, no more worries about sn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 04/03/2010 at 10:42, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    what about license depending on hardware like themida, no more worries about sn

    that would be hell i guess. just imagine you are using your cinema with an usb stick

    i think a php accessable database on maxons side would be a good way



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 05/03/2010 at 03:25, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Well, it would be possible to lock a license to both, C4D serial and e.g. the network adapter's MAC address.
    For people who want to use the license on multiple computer, one could let them pay an extra fee and use 00-00-00-00-00-00 als MAC address, signaling the plugin that the MAC should be ignored.
    But still, it would not be a pleasant thing for developers and customers.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 10/03/2010 at 04:49, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    I've decided that I am going to build in to my registration code that if the last five digits of the serial number are 12345 then my plugin is going to tell the person that this serial number is PIRATED.

    in the unlikely event that one person in the world actually owns this license, and purchases my plugin,  I will find a way around it.

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 17/03/2010 at 04:44, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    hi,

    Is there a way to make activation via the net like with adobe, or maybe is it possible to make hardware id and then the client send it to me so i will send him serial?

    please, any advice.

    thanks.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 17/03/2010 at 12:10, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Maybe we can require the users to supply Maxon order numbers with their purchase.  This is a unique number that people would have only received after purchasing C4D.  And in our plugins have a field for this number that they must enter and it must match what they provided us?

    How do people feel about that?  Would that be worth our time?

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 17/03/2010 at 12:27, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    MAXON can not share any information about their customers, that would be a breach of information privacy. I also don't see why you should be concerned about privated Cinema versions. The mechanism with the 11 digits of the Cinema serial is just an easy means to prohibit running more instances of your plugin at the same time than the customer owns. If the customer provides you with a pirated serial and it won't run, it is his own problem and I am pretty sure he has no legal rights to claim something. The use of pirated Cinema versions is MAXON's concern not yours.

    cheers,
    Matthias



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 18/03/2010 at 03:48, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    The use of pirated Cinema versions is MAXON's concern not yours.

    I agree. Why should we do a stricter protection than MAXON does? My plugin serials base on the 11 digits and the user's name. So the plugin serial can only work with a pirated c4d license, when the user makes his name public to the pirates. You may use your customers email address instead of the name for validating the plugin serial, so it would be a further inhibition level for him to give it away.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 18/03/2010 at 04:21, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Originally posted by xxxxxxxx

    I agree. Why should we do a stricter protection than MAXON does? My plugin serials base on the 11 digits and the user's name. So the plugin serial can only work with a pirated c4d license, when the user makes his name public to the pirates.

    Quoted for agreement. Software protection is always a trade-off between preventing someone pirating your app and inconveniencing the user to a point where they use someone else's app instead. TBH, for me the price I sold my first plugin at means it simply isn't worth the effort of trying to do anything more than a straightforward serial number check. I can understand that if you are selling a plugin costing hundreds of dollars you would feel very annoyed if someone gets it for free. I would probably feel the same. But if you lock your plugin to a particular machine, the user has to buy extra licenses to use on different machines - bearing in mind that it's legitimate under the Maxon license to use a single license of C4D on any machine (only one at a time, obviously!), so that you can - and people do - carry C4D around on an external drive and use it on different machines as their work requires. I think we should try to stick with that approach and lock plugin serials to C4D serials.

    There's nothing to stop individual developers using something like Themida if they wish, as the developers of Vray for C4D have done. But this isn't problem-free; some users have found that antiviral software reports Themida as a virus. And forget dongles. They break or are lost or drop out at the worst moment.

    Personally I think the current system works okay. I doubt that many sales have been lost due to people using pirated serial numbers. These people wouldn't have bought C4D or the plugin if they hadn't been able to get the knockoff version.



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 18/03/2010 at 04:42, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    I definintely think these are good points and I agree with them.  I agree with Matthias that pirated C4D versions are Maxon's problem and not ours.  I even got confirmation from Maxon that there is no legal action that can come against us for selling our plugins to people with pirated C4D copies.

    The serial number approach has worked for me.  The most time consuming part for me has been to have to refund money to people with what I know is a pirated serial number.  I think at this point I am just selling my plugin to the people who buy it and if their serial number doesn't work properly because of their pirated version of c4d then that is their problem.

    ~Shawn



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 18/03/2010 at 05:00, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    Shawn, I agree entirely. With regard to refunds, yes, they're annoying. I got caught with that '12345' serial before this discussion started and it didn't even occur to me (how naive is that?) that it might be a keygen number. It's difficult to make a refund after several months - in fact I'm not even sure it's possible with Paypal after a certain time interval.

    Other than that, I agree that if someone has a problem with the plugin because they're using a pirated copy of C4D, it's their problem, not mine.

    Steve



  • THE POST BELOW IS MORE THAN 5 YEARS OLD. RELATED SUPPORT INFORMATION MIGHT BE OUTDATED OR DEPRECATED

    On 18/03/2010 at 05:12, xxxxxxxx wrote:

    In the end everybody should be aware of 2 universal facts concerning software piracy:

    1. If someone has crack knowledge and is willing to crack a software, he will. period. There is no 100% safe way to lock a software.

    2. People using pirated software are not the target customer of you in any case. They are less than 0.1% of real customers. So any energy you put in piracy prevention is mostly for your own conscience rather than real protection (see point 1 again).

    That´s why serial number protection is fine. People that really want to buy your software won´t care about cracking it or downloading pirated versions of them. They try the demo and then buy (or not) and that´s it. You should rather concentrate and collect your energy for other things, for example customer´s services. ;-)


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